Yes, many libraries do a lot of work populating their IR and it sounds like you have a great set of workflows going. 

But, none of these efforts result in meeting the mandate for the Nelson Memo zero embargo green, unless the campus IR is one of the "agency-designated repositories" (and by my tracking none of the agencies have so designated campus repositories -- happy to be corrected if I'm missed something). This isn't to say these campus efforts aren't useful of course! 
___

Lisa Janicke Hinchliffe
[log in to unmask]





On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 2:20 PM Orange, Danelle <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Hi Lisa,

A perspective on institutional repository uptake:   At Marquette, we make adding things to our Institutional repository relatively easy.  While compliance is not 100%, the majority of Faculty fill out annual faculty reports that basically allow the administration to measure the research output of the institution.  These faculty reports are then collated into a report for the repository of all faculty publications.  

We pull that report and put as much of the contents as possible into the repository.  If it is open access, we will use that. If we are allowed to only publish an author version?  We contact our authors about getting that article. If we can only make it available on campus?  We can do that as well.  We have a rights and author database that keeps track of individual journals and publishers regarding their rights agreements.  We also track our good faith efforts to contact publishers and authors.  

Our goal is to limit the number of steps it takes for a faculty member to deposit in the repository and then use the ease of deposit as a selling point.   We also send out annual emails to our faculty about how many people have downloaded their articles or white papers which generates interest in continuing to fill out the faculty report.     


Danelle Orange (She/Them)
Institutional Repository Librarian
Phone:  414-288-6295
Email:  [log in to unmask]

Raynor Memorial Library

1355 W Wisconsin Ave, Milwaukee, WI 53233
Marquette University

 

From: OpenCafe-l <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Lisa Hinchliffe
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2024 8:37 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OPENCAFE-L] Bringing the goals of the OA movement back into forefront

 

CAUTION:  This email originated outside of Marquette University.  Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

 

*Zero Embargo* Green of the AAM or VOR would make them compliant with the Nelson OSTP memo. And that's I think why Gold will be the route* -- bolstered by the fact that the CHORUS journal workflows enable this compliance and, since the institution is on the hook for compliance, the likely best way for the institution to ensure compliance is to require the researcher to budget for it at the grant application stage. 

 

On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 8:21AM Sara Rouhi <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

I’d also add that researchers funded by US grant agents won’t have the luxury of publishing behind paywalls when the new mandates are in place. Green DOES make them compliant, yes, but most of them are not plugged in enough to:

  1. Know what Green is
  2. Know that it makes them compliant
  3. Know where to deposit
  4. Know where to ask (they will most likely reach out to their funders before they reach out to libraries).

 

Absolutely agree that Green is viable route but most communities still consider the VoR the most important/ “valid” version and it’s the more discoverable version. (Usage of IRs is painfully low bc most libraries don’t have the promotional means to get the word on out on that open content).

 

I could be misunderstanding the Nelson memo requirements but my recollection is that AAM is what most publishers allow. Not VoR. Perhaps that will change.

 

Welcome correction!
Sara

 

-- 

Sara Rouhi

Director of Open Science and Publishing Innovation

 

AIP Publishing

Remote, based in Washington DC (GMT - 5hr)

+1.202.505.0814

srouhi@aip.orgpublishing.aip.org

 

ORCiD: 0000-0003-1803-6186

Twitter Bluesky LinkedIn 

 

AIPP respects flexible work schedules — no need to reply outside of your workday.

 

 

 

 

From: OpenCafe-l <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Glenn Hampson <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Monday, November 4, 2024 at 11:01
PM
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [OPENCAFE-L] Bringing the goals of the OA movement back into forefront

As well, though, we need to be careful not to sound like we’re rationalizing inequity---i.e., that these researchers should be happy they can publish in three-fourths of the journals.

 

From: Glenn Hampson
Sent: Monday, November 4, 2024 7:43 PM
To: T Scott <[log in to unmask]>
Cc: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OPENCAFE-L] Bringing the goals of the OA movement back into forefront

 

Agreed Scott, at least based on my chicken scratches. But the anecdotal evidence suggests there’s more to this story, so I’d like to learn more. Maybe someone here has that knowledge?

 

Best,

 

Glenn

 

On Nov 4, 2024, at 6:54PM, T Scott <[log in to unmask]> wrote:



Which I guess just brings me back to the thought that sparked my initial question: that we need to be cautious about making broad claims about the negative impacts of APCs on the ability of researchers to publish at all.  

 

Scott

 

On Nov 4, 2024, at 7:29PM, Glenn Hampson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:



Hi Scott,

 

Really interesting question. I don’t have access to all the databases needed to answer your question, though---maybe someone here with access can run a quick query? Using the free stuff, take a lot at the Scimago listings, for example. Only 11 of the top 100 journals are open access (using the SCImago Journal Rank indicator as a proxy for what constitutes “top”), which supports your hypothesis that author choice isn’t being seriously impacted. But then look at the listings by field. There’s tons of variation here:

 

Field

Highest ranked open journal

Biochemistry

23

Chemistry

2, 5 (hybrid), 14 (hybrid), 17, 20 (hybrid)

Computer science

3, 12, 19

Earth and Planetary science

4, 8 (hybrid), 11, 16, 17, 19

Immunology

12 (hybrid), 14 (hybrid), 15

Physics

7, 13 (hybrid), 14, 18 (hybrid), 19

 

So the answer to your question is field dependent. Unfortunately, Scimago doesn’t show open vs. hybrid status to get to that part of your question---it’s too labor intensive to dig deep this way---so I’ll just narrow my search using Elsevier’s web list instead. If I’m a life sciences research looking to publish in the highest impact factor journals in Elsevier’s portfolio (say, a JIF between 5 and 10), regardless of whether these journals are OA, hybrid, or subscription, I have 31 choices. Of these, none are subscription, and 23 are hybrid, leaving only 8 that are OA (presumably APC-based but I don’t know). That’s roughly one-quarter of the top choices. (See Elsevier Journal Catalog: Browse Peer-Reviewed Journals List), which kind of aligns with the Scimago data for some fields (e.g., earth science, where five of the top 20 journals are non-hybrid OA).

 

Does this sort of distribution impact choice? Are earth scientists from some countries being muted because they can’t afford to publish in top one quarter of journals in their field? I think you’d need to get even more granular here, though. That is, a study will only be a good fit for a handful of journals---and I don’t know if there’s data available to support this kind of exploration (except in publisher databases).

 

So, there’s some data out there we can glean (paper idea for someone), but anecdotal evidence is also available. Based on our researcher survey done a few years ago (yes, small N of 105---additional, more rigorous survey data is welcome), about half of researchers surveyed said there were high quality OA journals in their field they’d consider publishing in, and about half said they had personally been unable to publish in an open journal because of high APC costs. There are plenty of other surveys and reports to draw on, but I agree it would be great to get a better analytical sense of exactly what’s actually happening and where.

 

Best,

 

Glenn

 

Glenn Hampson
Executive Director
Science Communication Institute (SCI)
Program Director
Open Scholarship Initiative (OSI)

 

From: T Scott Plutchak <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, November 4, 2024 3:14 PM
To: Glenn Hampson <[log in to unmask]>; [log in to unmask]
Cc: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OPENCAFE-L] Bringing the goals of the OA movement back into forefront

 

Glenn,

 

Thanks, but I don’t think this quite gets at the situation I’m curious about.  Footnote 5 says that about half of articles are published OA, but that most journals are subscription based.  So presumably, some of those OA articles are in hybrid journals and could have been published with no cost to the researcher.  And while you say the specialty journals are the “best”, surely they’re not all of equal desirability on the part of the researcher.  

 

So to try to put my question differently (and the data to answer it may not exist) are there fields in which lack of ability to pay APCs prevents researchers from publishing in the most desirable journals in their fields?  The context here is that in any discipline people know which are the journals they’d most like to appear in.  Impact factor is a part of that calculation, but not the whole thing.    What I’m questioning is the degree to which it is true that APCs prevent people from publishing in the journals they’d most like to publish in.

 

On the matter of Green as a solution to OA, I’ve never been a fan.  Green is parasitic on subscription journals and while it helps with accessibility it has done little to advance ideal OA — access to the VoR from the date of publication.

 

Please don’t take this as my suggesting that APCs are not a problem.  But I think we need to be precise about what the problem is and be careful about making blanket statements about APCs preventing people from publishing at all.  That would only be the case if most of the best journals were APC only and I don’t think that’s the case yet — although, as I said in my previous message, I’d be happy to stand corrected on that.

 

Scott

 

On Nov 2, 2024, at 9:05PM, Glenn Hampson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

 

Hi Scott,

 

Maybe? As this OSI infographic shows (OSI-Infographic-2.0: Publishing STM Research), in STM research, about 75% of the world’s high-quality, peer-reviewed articles get published in so-called specialty journals. These are generally the “best” options you mention (excluding prestige journals, which is a bit like winning the lottery). At last count, about half of these journals are open access---probably more today since this infographic is a few years old.

 

Twenty years ago, the challenge for researchers angling for these journals would have been to produce high quality research that gets accepted by these journals. Today, their challenge is twofold: produce the high-quality research, and then, come up with enough money to get it published. The dampening effect of this compound challenge, I think, is what Sara is describing. Why even do the research if it can’t get published? Where can you publish if not specialty journals (see also, preprints and “deceptive”—aka predatory---journals that don’t help researchers in terms of tenure of funder evaluation metrics). And as the publishing volumes of these researchers declines, so too do their funding and career prospects, and their ability to contribute to scientific progress.

 

Best,

 

Glenn

 

Glenn Hampson
Executive Director
Science Communication Institute (SCI)
Program Director
Open Scholarship Initiative (OSI)

 

 

From: OpenCafe-l <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of T Scott Plutchak
Sent: Saturday, November 2, 2024 3:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OPENCAFE-L] Bringing the goals of the OA movement back into forefront

 

I’m happy to stand corrected, but isn’t it still the case that the most desirable places to publish in many (most?) fields are still subscription journals that don’t require APCs?

 

The reliance on APCs is certainly a barrier to expanding OA into fields and geographical areas where individual authors don’t have easy access to funding for paying the APCs, but don’t those authors still have the same opportunities/challenges for getting their papers published that they’ve always had?

 

I agree that relying on APCs to fund OA is problematic for the expansion of OA, but as a researcher, if my goal is to publish in the most desirable journals in my field, don’t I currently have pretty much the same options as I did, say, a decade ago?

 

Unless I’m completely missing something here (quite possible) I think we should be careful to distinguish between APCs as a barrier to expanding OA and the notion that APCs are preventing individual researchers from publishing in the best journals in their field.  (Which is part of what makes changing the current paradigm challenging because it’s only the minority of researchers who are passionate about OA who feel themselves critically disadvantaged by APCs).

 

Scott

 

T. Scott Plutchak

Librarian

Epistemologist

Birmingham, Alabama

 

 



On Nov 2, 2024, at 8:03AM, Sara Rouhi <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

 

Hi Thomas, in principle I agree but you're forgetting that the wildly warped research assessment paradigm -- built and paid for by wealthy global north institutions, funders, and networks -- doesn't reward the behaviors you're a describing. Yet. Ignoring this is not a luxury most can afford.

 

Things like DORA, HELIOS open and CoARA  are trying to move the needle here but the reality is that the rewards/recognition paradigm -- in most cases - doesn't reward preprints and other open science best practice.  So while yes I can write a paper and throw into into the void that is the internet, getting a preprint into arxiv doesn't usually help with tenure, promotion, grant funding etc. esp if it has no peer review.

 

Most prestige outlets are either paywalled or have very high APCs for publishing open and those are where most researchers are incentivized to publish bc of how they’re rewarded.

 

The irony of this whole discussion is that academics themselves - in many cases - are the most invested in the current paradigm bc it's how they came up in their careers and it's how they're telling their students they must as well. The cycle of violence continues. Change is slow. And funders keep, mistakenly in my view, trying to accelerate change thru sticks rather than carrots. The sticks exact all these unintended consequences without necessarily getting the behaviors funders want. 

 

I'd like to see funders try rewarding the behaviors they want to see (more money?) to research grantees that demonstrate a commitment to open best practice - whatever that is in their field. 

 

Recognize those who ARE doing the work instead of mandating behaviors that aren't instantiated yet.

 

Anyway, slightly off track. TLDR - yes, you can publish "anywhere" if you have the luxury of being outside the current research assessment paradigm. Most researchers don't. Again, ease is the luxury of the privileged. 

 

LATAM escaped this and now even they're getting sucked into the vortex I described in my previous email.

 

My ten cents,

Sara 

 

Director, Open Science & Publishing Innovation

AIP Publishing

 

 


From: OpenCafe-l <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Thomas Krichel <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, November 1, 2024 8:50:06 PM
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [OPENCAFE-L] Bringing the goals of the OA movement back into forefront

 

  Glenn Hampson writes

> From participating in science. If you aren’t publishing, you aren’t participating.

  How do APCs prevent people from publishing? There are still plenty of other
  options. So while APC limit people, they don't exclude them.

> Here's the story in two charts, Thomas. First, academic salaries are
> too low in much of the world to pay average APC prices
> (US$2600-ish),

  My income is about $700 a month. I can still publish on arXiv. Or I can
  put my results on my web pages. As it turns out most cited paper has
  never been formally published. Yes, I can't afford fools' gold, as
  Stevan---I believe---aptly called it.  But I am no fool to start with.

> Hope this helps.

  Sure it demonstrates a confusion between limitation and exclusion.

--
  Written by Thomas Krichel https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fopenlib.org%2Fhome%2Fkrichel&data=05%7C02%7Csrouhi%40AIP.ORG%7Ccf4fb8f0afab4f7c680f08dcfad85540%7Cdc10e84a5061494682799dd51547c7e9%7C0%7C0%7C638661054270460084%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GTGCCDqETpjdR4faule%2Bik2MPXWdsyMjtjg5OTF3%2Fio%3D&reserved=0 on his 21701st day.

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